Posts by Joe Grundy

11

Numbers 31:17 and 18

by schnell in

now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

but all the women children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.. *sigh*.

it's not that i haven't seen this passage before.

Joe Grundy

This the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b084bmgs

It made me think, to be honest. When I was brought up, OT characters were portrayed in fluffy striped blanket robes, wandering around with their sheep and goats doing yhwh stuff.

Now picture them in ISIS type gear, moving in to towns and villages, seeking out those who believed different to them, worshiping different gods and so on. Seizing and carrying off young girls/women as prizes of war. Beheading their enemy, burning their settlements, enslaving those they didn't kill.

But they were guided and commanded by their god, yhwh, and today they are celebrated and remembered.

Something to think about as we approach xmas and the old OT bits are read out.

11

Numbers 31:17 and 18

by schnell in

now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

but all the women children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.. *sigh*.

it's not that i haven't seen this passage before.

Joe Grundy

There was a very interesting BBC R4 documentary yesterday evening about women who left a 'closed' orthodox Jewish community in the UK. This community may actually end up being the largest Jewish community because of their strict rules, it seems.

It included arranged marriage, women losing their children if they leave the community and day-to-day stuff. For example, covering their hair (no, that didn't start with Muslims). Ordinarily, the women wear wigs. The most observant wear wigs AND hats.

You may recall bits in the OT about menstruating women being 'unclean'. In this community they have ritual bath-houses where women must attend to ritually bathe after their period - after they have used white cloths inserted vaginally to confirm the end of the flow. In any case of doubt the Rabbi is called in.

This community regard themselves as the 'true' Jews who are following their laws. Listening to this was an eye-opener for me.

10

Starting a 'Bible Study' - The Basics

by Joe Grundy in

i never was a jw.

i was brought up in a fairly fundie sect (pb) and have been for many years an interested atheist.

i am an admirer of the work of bart ehrman (and recommend his blog).. from time to time, jws call at my door and invite me to partake in a 'bible study'.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW. I was brought up in a fairly fundie sect (PB) and have been for many years an interested atheist. I am an admirer of the work of Bart Ehrman (and recommend his blog).

From time to time, JWs call at my door and invite me to partake in a 'Bible Study'. I always enthusiastically accept. (This is an area in which I am interested, and am contemplating (even at my advanced age) going to university full-time to follow a degree course).

Ehrman describes how he does a 'pop quiz' of his undergrad students on their first day. Nothing complicated, very basic stuff. I use some of his questions when a JW at my door invites me to a 'Bible Study',

Such as: How many books in the NT? In what language were they written? What was Paul's last name? Or Jesus' last name? What language did Jesus speak? And so on and so on.

Shockingly (or not) not one of the JWs inviting me to join in a 'Bible Study' has been able to answer or discuss even the most basic issues, let alone stuff like the schism with Orthodox churches etc.

'Bible Study' it most certainly is not.

114

Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?

by nicolaou in

jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.

they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.

they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?

Joe Grundy

An interesting debate, but one IMHO will never lead to a conclusion.

I was brought up in a fundie evangelical sect (PB) which thought that the vast majority of believers outside the sect were not 'real' xians. That included RCs, CofE, etc. etc. And those were only the ones they thought they knew anything about. Orthodox, Ebionites, Marcionites, and other (to them) unknowns must have been heretics.

I am a keen but amateur student of the history of the early Jesus followers. Even my shallow reading shows just how diverse the early beliefs were. (This is why the claims of WT and other sects to be following the 'true earliest beliefs' are untenable after even basic research).

I like Bart Ehrman's work and find it thought-provoking. This is his view on 'what is a Christian':

" I think anyone who wants to call themselves Christian ought at the very least to (1) believe there is some kind of God in the world (a superior divine being of some kind) and (2) think that Jesus somehow reveals that God or makes access to that God possible or … or anything else that makes Jesus important in relationship to that God."

5

JW Comedy By An Ex-JW

by Joe Grundy in

deborah frances white 30 min radio show 14 oct.. highly recommended.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07x6mf3.

Joe Grundy

Deborah Frances White 30 min radio show 14 Oct.

Highly recommended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07x6mf3

4

Probably Not The Most Effective Anti-JW Protest ...

by Joe Grundy in

newspaper headline:.

"primary school teacher grabbed jehovah's witness by throat while celebrating end of term in swansea".

link here:.

Joe Grundy

"She started being abusive about a young women [her sister-in-law] who attended the hall. I can't repeat the exact words but it was in essence that she [her sister-in-law] was sucking penises, in a vulgar manner."

Not the sort of thing you read every day.

This story seems to have it all: drunkenness, assault, sucking penises and paedo allegations.

4

Probably Not The Most Effective Anti-JW Protest ...

by Joe Grundy in

newspaper headline:.

"primary school teacher grabbed jehovah's witness by throat while celebrating end of term in swansea".

link here:.

Joe Grundy

Newspaper headline:

"Primary school teacher grabbed Jehovah's Witness by throat while celebrating end of term in Swansea"

Link here:

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/primary-school-teacher-assaulted-jehovah-s-witnes-while-out-celebrating-the-end-of-term-in-swansea/story-29738460-detail/story.html

21

So my husband got a letter

by Lost his mind in

so, he received a letter that i am wondering if it is one of those open letters that are out there to denote time given.

it starts out with the name of the person sending it, then goes into the spiel...do you know our god's name?

when i was shown what it is, i kind of got upset.

Joe Grundy

"Wasn't he called 'El' (pronounced Ale) before Yahweh?"

Yes, of course. That's why JWs and many others call their buildings 'Bethel' = The House of God.

9

Ex-Jehovah's Witness Deborah Frances-White on door knocking with Michael Jackson and ditching the 'cult'

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

deborah frances-white.

always a laugh and a blast from my past life on the gold coast.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ex-jehovahs-witness-deborah-frances-white-on-door-knocking-with/.

deborah frances-white is a comedian and writer.

Joe Grundy

An excellent programme, utterly believable. I think it may have been a repeat. Oral and anal sex were mentioned, which is not common for a BBC R4 morning programme. Recommended.

44

The 1914 doctrine: How long it will last?

by opusdei1972 in

one hundred years have passed and the society still supports this lie, which of course, is the basis of their other lies, like that of the unfaithful and not discreet slave appointed in 1919. however, i wonder, what will happen after 50 years, when the overlapped generation will pass?.

and if you want, what will happen with this religion in 2100?, could it survive with the same lie??

?.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW, but I have a view about this.

'Distance lends enchantment'.

Paul had a vision, which led him to his view of Xianity, which became orthodox. Mohammed had his vision, which became orthodox. Joseph Smith propounded his visions, which became orthodox mormonism. Millerites had their view, Russell had his view, etc. etc. which disappeared back into the mists of time. They were either accepted or forgotten.

'1914' is, I think, (perhaps consciously by the GB) being forgotten and disappearing into the mists of time. How often is Russell referred to now in JW writings?

It will pass, no doubt, and modern JW writers will consign it to (uncomfortable) history. Those raking it up will be accused of apostacy.